iePolitics: It has been taken down but . . .
This was a tweet from our District Attorney yesterday:
The sheriff has asked all members of the press to stop tweeting immediately. It is hindering officer safety.#Dorner
— SB District Attorney (@sbcountyda) February 12, 2013
And, of course, most of the media dutifully complied.
Now, as has been widely reported, Donner was using his GPS-enabled smart phone to read tweets while he was in the middle of a firefight with the cops. Besides for that, there are many other issues here. Any takers?
This entry was posted in Local Government by Administrator
Modern technology has evolved to the point where blow-by-blow events can be televised and using digital hand-held devices information can be obtained instantly.
If you do any research on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, you will learn that the opposition to our troops have used cell-phones technology to monitor our troops.
Welcome to the world of 1984.
The request was reasonable, justified, smart without question.
Dorner was a murderer who was smarter than most, giving him ANY advantage however slight, was dangerous for those who were tasked with taking him into custody.
I don’t care to die because a news reporter is tweeting their ass off telling the enemy where I might be or what LE is doing when the bullets are flying.
Wow Kenny, I actually agree with you for once.
I guess there is hope then Joe. Actually you
have agreed with me twice for the record.
I am glad to see ACU and James Mills agree on something. I concur with both your opinions.
Be quiet Milstar I have an image to protect.
Piss on the District Attorney.
Yeah right smart phone My a** I wish I had dorners phone carrier. The police told the State run media to stop all live feeds so law enforcement can carry out their street justice murder without any documentation. Burning people out is a common police tactic ( Waco, Ruby Ridge) when police meet any trained resistors. When the paramilitary police get to play dress up in tactical gear and point “Military style assault weapons” at families and show the slave masses that they are the boss they will.
Extremely angry and aggrevated with the media showing our SWAT teams on the ground and then relaying their other positions!!!! REALLY???? WTF??? My friends are willing to run into a hail of bullets to protect their own…….willing to go after a madman before he kills someone else……knowing that, at that very moment, it could be their EOW! And you have the stupidity to advertise their tactics????!!!! SHAME ON YOU! You have no right to put my friends’ lives in danger just to boost your ratings….
Dorner was a evil crazy person…..and you are just as bad!
I’m curious. Do any of you tweet?
I don’t and yes my Tweet name is SgtMilstar….. I signed up for it, but I don’t have a smart phone….. lol
I do not tweet or any other media stuff.
I post on 3 different political websites, that’s
it,
Thomas seems like you have a few axes to grind. Why don’t you pack your happy ass up and move to a country that has a better policing policy. Sounds like you agree with the way and style he took out the police and citizens.
any body who was listening to a scanner (downloaded off the internet) could hear people giving out their cell phone numbers over the air.
Thomas -
The meer inference San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department was part of some big conspiracy to eliminate that pice of shit is preposterous. SBSD and LAPD don’t even get along that well. LAPD, on their own, flew a SWAT team to the San Bernardino airport and asked several time if they could fly up to Big Bear to assist. SBSD declined their requests.
The initial contact, that day, was made by a Game Warden. Hardly someone LAPD would have involved in a major conspiracy. The Deputy that was killed, was just a regular patrol deputy. He grew up on the mountain and had a 6 mo old baby at home. He wasn’t a party to any conspiracy.
I have personally investigated several burned bodies. It is not unusual to find wallets and contents at least partially intact. The body, leather wallet and clothing acts as insulation. The wallet found in San Diego was his badge and ID. I, as well as a lot of cops carry separate wallets, one for money, credit cards, etc. and one for badge and LE ID.
The fact that someone ‘on-scene’ may had said something to the effect of “burn him” is just human nature. The fire was started by a device commonly used in barricaded situations. Gunfire, from the suspect, continued after the fire started. I, sitting at home, was also hoping the POS burned.
To diminish the reputation/memory of a good man, to propagate ridiculous, paranoid conspiracy theories is reprehensible.
Fassari……… I agree with everything that you wrote except for one thing.
JM was much more than a “regular patrol deputy” …….. HE WAS A HERO! He was truly one of the good guys and we all know that this world needs as many of them as possible.
First Name Brady LN List – That happens all the time.
Fassari quote from his writings per news media:
Dorner, 33, had said in a lengthy rant police believe he posted on Facebook that he expected to die in one final, violent confrontation with police, and if it was him in the cabin that’s just what happened.
He got his wishes. He could have spared us all by just ending his life prior to his violent murderous rampage he led on the world for 10 days. Four people dead, two wounded.
I guess I’m the only one that thinks cops pointing loaded guns at me and my children is not ok. Last time I checked my 5 year old doesn’t look like a 6 foot 270 pound man. Also I guess I’m the only one who thinks that it’s wrong for police to execute suspects as they see fit to do so. All law enforcement in southern California were out for blood ask the 2 ladies that where shot or the residents that had bullets rip through their homes or the guy who was going to go surfing about his nice T bone and shots being fired at him. I guess the “professional” police forgot about all protocols and rules of engagement in those situations. In no way am I defending Dorner all I’m doing is calling out our peacekeepers who sign on to do the job and are paid to do the right thing. And throwing an incendiary device into a building knowing it will start a fire and most likely kill whoever is in the building is wrong. This country use to be a country of laws and due process and when we have the people praising Dorner for his murderous actions or the police exacting revenge it’s just wrong and it makes this country an evil place
??…was it not possible to track te monster via te server?
???….could te killer not be tracked via is server?
So Thomas, YOU TELL us how the cops should have taken Dorner out of the cabin?
NO ONE including cops to my knowledge have attemtped to defend the shootings of the news paper ladies or the surfer.
In fact is appears government officials took those folks out and bought them new trucks, JUST for starters.
Should the cops who open fired on those folks under the total circumstances be prosecuted, YES!!!!!
But lets just start with how YOU would have handled Dorner on that mountain?
I have seen the injustices you speak of first hand, so make sure you have some first hand knowledge OTHER than your good friend told you, or I read in the paper, or I have watch all the episodes of cops so I KNOW how the system works.
Proceed Mr. Jefferson!!!! Use your free speech rights. WITH all due respect.
@Thomas Jefferson……..It was NOT the SBSD that shot at the Torrance ladies and the house lit up on fire after two attempts to use something less flammable. And may I remind you that this was after 2 of our deputies were hit. The other deputies couldn’t retrieve their fallen brothers because of the heavy artillery gunfire they were receiving.
Next time, why don’t you go up, knock on the door and ask the murderer to give himself up. Maybe if you smile and say Pretty Please he might comply. Until you are willing to walk in the shoes of the deputies who put their lives at risk every day then please be quiet. I hear the SBSD might be hiring soon….. Would you like me to send you an application?
Hahahah you guys are missing the point. It’s about the ever growing militarized police doing whatever they want without consequences because of the blue brotherhood mantra. I’m afraid that there are going to be more “accidental” burn outs from pyrotechnic tear gas canisters when your jack booted thug heros unconstitutionaly come for the peoples arms. But I’m sure you all will curl up in the fetal position beneath your gods in uniform when they demand your property because an illegal law was passed.
I also find in amusing how certain people on this blog act like they are the foremost experts because they know 10 codes or cop lingo and talk down to people not knowing the life experiences of a person.
AGAIN Mr. Jefferson what would you have
done differently trying to take Dorner into
custody sir??
RIP Chris Dorner
I am sure the great Odin did bow his knee upon your entrance into Valhalla. Rest well mighty warrior.
But I understand that his enemies did need to stop him…
OAN – You are absolutely right, Jeremiah was a hero! I did not me to diminish him at all. I was only trying to demonstrate that a Station Detective at Yucaipa is not likely to be involved in some ridiculous conspiracy allegedly propagated by the LAPD to keep the POS quiet.
TJ – A close personal friend of mine, who lived in BB for 40 years, was commenting on how very few cabins (in the area) have basements. The cabin the POS holed up in had one of those basements, thus it had wood plank flooring that subsequently caught fire (due to the nature of the gas canister). The majority of time those devices are used (in CA) they are ‘thrown’ into residences with concrete slab foundations. Under those circumstances the carpet mat melt but a raging fire is seldom the result. The personal on scene had no prior knowledge of the combustibility of the flooring.
For the previous Anon poster – You are an ASS – May the pice of shit burn in hell. When my time comes I will gladly join him, so I can kick his ass for the rest of eternity!
Dorner is a POS to many, but if you ignore the causation or potential cause of this issue, YOU might be a dummy. I copied this from another cite.
The commentary is well supported by many civil cases that have come out of LAPD.
#164 by Truth Be Told on February 14, 2013
There was nothing to weed out prior to Christopher Dorner’s employment. LAPD created the monster Dorner became and now many must painfully deal with it. The tools in place to weed out the mentally ill in the police selection process works very well.
Dorner was not fired because he was black, he was hired because he is black. He was fired because he was a “Whistle Blower.” Dorner being fired was a microscopic message to Dorner himself, but the enormous message with his firing was to the rest of the LAPD. “If you see or hear something that is abusive or corrupt, keep your big mouth shut or we’ll fire you too!”
Police administrations can handle complaints from the public. They understand those complaints and are prepared to deal with them. The ego’s of chief’s, sheriff’s, commanders or captain’s simply cannot stand a rank-and-file officer coming to them with complaints about abuse or corruption within their department’s or division. Simply put, these administrators are offended by internally generated complaints because it shows them, and everyone else that a subordinate knew something before they did.
What Dorner likely struggled with, and angered over daily, which festered into rage and tragedy in the end was the intentional, antiquated legal representation he received from Ret. Capt. Randal Quan. Dorner likely only became aware that his legal representation was substandard after the fact. Dorner then likely felt foolish for believing a retired captain from his own police administration was actually going to work hard on his behalf to save a job his administrative friends a colleagues were trying to take away.
Attorney and Retired LAPD Captain Randal Quan is friends with Attorney and Retired LAPD Captain
Paul Coble of the Law Firm Jones & Mayer in Fullerton, CA. Both are friends/colleagues with Retired Captain and former Fullerton City Council Member Pat McKinley. Paul Coble is a hired gun; a hatchet man that helps police chief’s and sheriff’s from throughout Southern California fire undesirable police officers and deputies; especially Whistle Blowers. Dorner never had a chance as Quan was going to provide the most minimal of defenses to a client like Dorner. Quan’s loyalty is and will always be with police administrations.
Dorner’s ultimate meltdown was a long process. Initially when fired, Dorner was hurt. He felt betrayed, embarrassed, and humiliated. Quan, his attorney, was someone Dorner trusted to right the wrong done to him. Quan then betrayed him, as did a rubber stamped appeals process.
Dorner’s untreated hurt turned into anger. His untreated anger turned into depression. His untreated depression turned into rage. This ultimate rage led to his murderous retaliation; but even in his rage, his focus remained clear as to whom his enemies now were. This is why the civilians Dorner encountered after the Irvine homicides were not murdered by him. Dorner’s rage extended to his former rank-and-file colleagues as they stood silent in the wake of his termination, and likely all the friends he once had in the LAPD turned their backs on him. Any LAPD officer that remained friends with him would find themselves being fired as well as an example to all.
One of the many unreported ironies in this tragedy is as it relates to the Riverside Police Department. In 2010, then Riverside Police Chief Russ Leach was arrested for DUI/Hit & Run after crashing his unmarked police unit following a drinking binge at the 215 Strip Club in Colton, CA. One Riverside officer who refused to help cover up the accident was, you guessed it, fired for Whistle Blowing. You the public, and the law enforcement (Family?) turned their backs on him as well. So who is at fault for these retaliatory terminations taking place with impunity? The press and you the public are. For as much as you both demand honesty and integrity from law enforcement, the moment one of these officer’s blows the whistle, you all suddenly turn into Tony Soprano and call them a Rat! Or better yet, a disgruntled employee. Truth be told, you can’t take “Yes” for an answer when it comes to Whistle Blowers. In the competitive, money driven media market, the new media will cease to be the self-ordained Whistle Blowers of police corruption if they allow law enforcement officer’s to successfully do that job themselves. But hey, that’s not your problem; right?
Thank god for social media.
ACU, where did that come from? It was a good analysis while being pretty impartial.
Another blog I frequent. Yep great analogy and SPOT on.
HEY MIKE, how about putting a little of that anger and frustration towards LAPD who might have helped create this POS.
There is so many red flags flying on this case Stevie Wonder could see them.
Add Maddox to the mix my friend, I am starting to scratch my head and wonder if your paying attention.
Show me some BALLS dude towards what creates this crap. WTF do you care about what you say, your retired.
Don’t be selective about the “thin blue line” shit.
You don’t comment much on cops who get hammered for their honesty, but your mad as hell about those who get killed by a POS that might have been created by those types who screwed over Bill.
Worse yet the crew of misfits you worked with who dicked around with Travis just adds to my thoughts. Talk about pushing a guy to the brink.
Whoever you advised about all that as you said before, maybe YOU didn’t yell loud enough.
Damn dude. Your right, me and you might have had problems if we worked together, I’d have gotten fired for kicking your ass for trying to get you to engage your thought process a little better.
Fassari said… “When my time comes I will gladly join him, so I can kick his ass for the rest of eternity!”
To which I heartily LOL. Unless you are some kind of super bad ass from another dimension I doubt that even in the after life any single cop would stand the slightest chance against the might Chris Dorner. Every time a single officer or even a pair came anywhere near him one of three things happened. They died, went to the hospital or ran away.
Kenny, I agree LAPD has a multitude of problems, and has for years. My first shooting (So. Pas PD) was in LAPD’s area, at the end of a pursuit. The 2 LAPD Officers that were on scene asked me “what do you want us to say happened?”. I told them to tell the truth. It scared the shit out of me, made me start second guessing myself. It all turned out ok.
I dont have any first hand knowledge of what goes on there and don’t like to comment on issues unless I do. My posts, on this blog, have included rants on several of the issues you mentioned. I tried to go thru normal channels, about the problems in Needles, and when that didn’t work I lit up the blog. I’m the first one that posted Maddox was getting hosed, while you were still of the belief he was guilty. I backed Bauer, to the extent I eve travel (on my own dime) to SB and testify on his behalf (another of those trips coming up in March). I don’t jump in, to bash people, unless I have personal knowledge on the events/issues (like the Borros case).
The fact that the POS was wronged by LAPD, could NEVER justify attacking uninvolved family members and LE personnel. That would be the equivalent of Bauer or Borros going on a killing spree in Kansas.
Annon – anytime you want to personal demonstration come on down.
Hey Anonymous here’s a can of STFU. That POS will rot in hell…This so called billy bad ass offed himself. What a coward lil bitch…Yea lets write this long ol manifesto, target family member of person who represented him and then target people who weren’t even involved. I’m glad that POS is dead. Hope he enjyos eternity in hell.
I know its hard to agree with ACU but anytime you wanna step on down…we can play…
I hope that fact that POS Dorner offed himself shuts some of these whack-jobs up. Anyone with an agenda or a “manifest” who kills themselves obviously is a psychopath who even if he wanted to get his point across didn’t.
Well that’s good Mike, you if anyone on this blog knows screwing with people DOES happen, and the potential problems it creates.
Dorner is still a POS for what he did, but SOMEONE might have created it, and THAT will not be set aside EITHER.
And that’s the part of the “thin blue line” cops don’t want to talk about and they downplay it to the level it is NOTHING but insulting to the general public.
What would you say if Dorner had whacked Captain Quan and no one else?
Say it turned out Quan was an evil POS himself in how he handled his business, would you call Dorner a POS still? Or a public service rendered like we do when a banger kills a banger?
YOU don’t get to be an evil POS with impunity and hide behind the law. If your a corrupt or inept individual you have NOTHING coming when someone gets tired of your crap.
Slice it anyway you want Mike and that applies to others as well, Dorner was a WAKE UP call for those who torment people thinking NOTHING can be done to them.
If Dorner had not written his manifesto, he would have taken out multiple targets before most had clued in.
Far as I am concerned Mrs.MacKay and the other victims of this tradegy MIGHT have a wrongful death cause of action if it turns out LAPD did create this monster.
Based on LAPD’s overall actions in this debacle it sure seems they might be just a little concerned about what lays ahead for them.
With the history of LAPD who has MANY priors doing just what Dorner claims, I’d say they might lose their case just based on public perception.
Next in line for public display is going to be SBSD if LDME keeps going in the direction they are.
Here’s another TRUE analogy Mike.
When your the target of the administration, and they are screwing with you left and right, you ask that question to someone in the know, and they tell you, that what is being done to you is being done in HOPES you do go off so they can nail you on that?
Now dude if that isn’t the lowest evil crap NOTHING is.
Pick a fight with a guy through abuse of authority, when they act out you MIGHT arrest them, try to prosecute them, or kill them? Is that the intent?
Some of you can keep downplaying what ever, but the information on this blog is intended to help others so they may not fall victim to such conduct.
Dorner had 3 years on the job, which half of it was spent overseas, I don’t think the guy knew what he was getting into with the culture of LAPD, and he knew less about the administrative issues that take place within LAPD.
But he did know one thing for sure, he was SCARED he’d be retaliated against for reporting a use of force. That comes from the appeals decision.
If that is the case, then someone needs to pay for their misdeeds for what happened there after.
I got your email with that LAPD cops opinion about Dorner, OKAY, I read the same court paper work he used to certifie Dorner as a POS, I found 1 lie in it myself.
That BOR should have been found “inconclusive”.
YOU ever been to an LAPD BOR Mike?
Just Curious you forgot to tell the guy where to meet you. When your done with him I’ll show you those emails you laughed at.
McHahon may get burned for this.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=shAA_q-T34I
I agree with Thomas Jefferson and ACU’s post after him. Just because you see all sides of the story doesn’t mean you don’t feel pain for the death of a deputy in the line of duty and that he isnt a hero. There isn’t a black and white line here people.
This is truly what you would call a “tragedy.” Too many people dead because a man snapped after being a victim of corruption. I feel for the man who lost his daughter if he didn’t do his job correctly. Could you imagine living with that? Horrible.
And to ACU, I too was thinking that the wife of the deputy might have a case too and not just against the LAPD. As for the people who were fired at simply because they were in a similar car…they definitely have a case.
Sgt Milstar I think you are right. McMahon might get burned on that. He has a lot in his closet too.
And because I feel it important to support a postion on such a serious matter WITH FACTS versus the “thin blue line” opinions, I’ll include this news article to further show they non-sense that goes on within LAPD.
http://www.dailynews.com/ci_22091156/former-lapd-sergeant-awarded-nearly-3m-retaliation-lawsuit
Sounds like a serious stress retirment to me.
NOTE the attorney, Greg Smith, and HAMMER for the rank and file.
Perception Is Reality…
Sgt Milstar…Copy that, I have worked patrol.
More allegations.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/16/local/me-gavin16
http://www.losangelesemploymentlaws.com/2010/11/lapd-officer-wins-4-million-in-retaliation-and-overtime-suit.shtml
http://privateofficernews.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/lapd-officers-win-million-dollar-lawsuit-in-ticket-quota-retaliation-www-privateofficer-com/
http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/136245-LAPD-officer-claiming-retaliation-gets-225-000/
And there is plenty more out there. So would I believe a handful of LAPD cops who simply says Dorner is a POS from day one. NOPE!!!
Now you add a CORRUPT union and lawyers into the mix as we have had around here for a long time, well you Dr.Phils figured out what might happen.
The only reason SBSD doesn’t have as many articles on them as LAPD does is because of the union and their lawyers who were able to SLIDE David Hart into the mix and cover up a ton of crap for guys like Richard Beemer.
And David Hart think Richard Beemer is “the man”. Gee I wonder if they hung out between hearings together?
Of course the lawyers help screw up your chance of filing a lawsuit as the only means LEFT to seek justice.
And we have talked about federal RICO statues more than once on this blog.
Hmm the POST scandal comes to mind.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Mob-Law-Allowed-Against-LAPD-Liability-in-2741664.php
My point there is plenty of documenation out there, and believing a handful of LAPD people who say is it isn’t so, WELL you drink that Kool-Aid.
Not everyone is going to move on because guys like Kevin Ross run their yap.
Sent: Sunday; February 10, 2013 @ 15:05
Subject: Written by LAPD/SWAT Sgt re: Dorner
Hello all.
Woke up late after 7 hours of extended watch due to the city being on Tac-Alert. During some down time yesterday, I also read this fool’s ramblings in total. He’s superman, can do no wrong, and anyone who thinks he is anything less than perfect is the real problem.
The LAPD’s Use of Force policy is very restrictive. A UOF investigation in the LAPD, no matter how minor, is unlike any UOF investigation anywhere. It is comprehensive, as investigated by a field sergeant, and reviewed by his lieutenant. It is then reviewed by the involved officer’s station training coordinator, then his commanding officer (captain), then it goes to Use of Force Review Section, where it passes through LAPD’s UOF subject matter experts, then has to be approved by that section’s commanding officer (captain), then it goes to Training Division for review, then the Chief of Police signs off on the adjudication of the UOF that was recommended, or not. Then the chief’s decision is reviewed by the Police Commission. Independent of ALL that, the Inspector General of the LAPD, a former US attorney, also independently reviews the UOF and reports any disagreements he may have to the Police Commission, who is the final say of whether the UOF was In or Out of Policy, and what will be done about the officer.
Having said all that, the FTO that the nutcase said kicked the suspect is a female white, who is a little over 5 feet in height. The nutcase was escorting that particular mentally challenged suspect when the suspect attempted to get away. Down go both the suspect and the nutcase to the ground. The FTO took the Taser from the nutcase’s belt and warned the suspect that he would be tased if he didn’t stop resisting. He was tased twice and finally gave up. I have a feeling that 6 foot 2, 270 pound, nutcase thought he would be the butt of jokes from his peers at having a little female FTO save his bacon when he couldn’t handle a suspect. Maybe that’s what caused his false allegation against her. One of his Academy classmates works for me, and told me that the nutcase was a quitter. During his class’ Pride Run, which is the last run a class does at the Academy before graduating, where all the instructors join the class, the nutcase couldn’t finish it and had to take a ride in the van that accompanies the class. That is something NO ONE does. No matter if you have to crawl, you finish your class’ Pride Run. Also, while on probation, he jumped a classmate and grabbed him by the neck, choking him, because he was told to mind his own business when he told the classmate to not say a certain word in conversation.
This nutcase should never have been hired.
Now , he has a list of everyone who he thinks is at fault for his failure to be a police officer. And he is going after their families. The LAPD has protective details in over 40 locations all over Southern California where families are located. Two of our officers at my station were out in Corona on such a detail, when they went to a 7-11 to get coffee. A citizen walked up and told them the nutcase they were looking for was getting gas across the street. The officers ran to their police car, and one of the officers dropped his cell phone, breaking it. The officers drove toward the gas station and saw nutcase’s vehicle leaving toward the freeway. Our radios don’t work outside the county and the officers were trying to communicate via phone that they had the suspect vehicle. They entered the I-15 and drove for a short distance when nutcase exited the freeway. As the officers drove around a curve, the nutcase had stopped his vehicle and was standing outside with a rifle. He fired on the approaching officers disabling the police car. Officers returned fire through their windshield and one officer was grazed in the head. I took a while for help to arrive due to poor communication capabilities. Those officers were LUCKY.
Twenty minutes later, nutcase is driving on a street in Riverside County and sees a Riverside PD police car going the opposite way, stopped at a red light. Without warning, nutcase stops his vehicle and opens fire from a standing position at the FTO and rookie officers sitting in their car. The rookie is seriously wounded and the FTO is killed. Nutcase then goes into the mountains and torches his car, leaving two suppressed rifles in the vehicle. And now we have hundreds of officers searching the mountains for nutcase.
He’s had a long time to plan this. After he was fired for making false statements during the UOF, he sued the LAPD in Superior Court to get his job back. The case was thrown out by the judge. On appeal, the whole UOF case and all involved were deposed and testified. The court again found in favor of the LAPD, and against nutcase. But hey, it’s still not nutcase’s fault. It’s everyone else’s fault.
Stay safe, all…………
IF SBSD had a system like that it might be a bit harder to screw someone over.
What? Firing due to whistle blowing or operating with too much integrity is common in the LAPD. It’s been going on for years. Maybe they just dot their i’s and cross their t’s better.
Is this a real email from a Sgt? Who with any formal and proper training, along with integrity, would use the word nutcase in an email. Pathetic. That’s how homeless people end up abused or dead.
Funny nutcase wasn’t mentioned in any
of Dorners legal papers.
Just by this Sergeants comments it would
be even a bigger failure on LAPD’s part.
This email makes LAPD’s liability more glaring
it sure doesn’t help them.
I have been lurking in the alter-net media for the last few hours on the Internet. It is interesting to see what people are saying concerning events that have occurred.
I have seen many references that “Sandy Hook” is a false-flag incident. I have seen references that Christopher Dorner is a “False Flag” incident to push the agenda to disarm the citizens.
Here is a screen shot from TV where it is interesting to read the lower banner concerning a remark from the US Marshall’s viewpoint:
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526957_292393344222487_2030108780_n.jpg
Another recording with audio from the takedown of Dorner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sisVskohj1k&feature=youtu.be
This one is recorded and posted prior to the incident and last stand of Dorner. In this video, he is stating that the whole case is a Hoax. What is interesting is the number of bullets or whatever is marked in the shot with the Riverside patrol unit with the evidence tags:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGvZFxY8VzA
It is my personal opinion that McMahon and his staff failed to understand what really took place at Dorner’s last Stand. If I was McMahon, I would have said: “Yes my men burned Christopher Dorner out of the residence. Our intentions were to force him to surrender to my members who had the residence surrounded and end this carnage”.
This case will be discussed for many years to follow….
If you decide to review the posted links above, take a look at the comments section and the videos that are on the right hand side of the you tube site. The right hand side videos usually change during the day due to volumes of people who view them….
Lets see LAPD’s IA report and the verbatim
transcript from start to finish and the
issues can be put to rest.
But not because some LAPD Sergrant says
so.
Maybe we can get an email from Sergeant
Lop on the Bauer matter since we hold
such documents in high regard, especially
without names attached.
No anonymous informants allowed as to this
debacle.
Milstar, you are right. He should have just come out and said hell yes we burned it down! It sure sounds like that was the intention. Burning the house down is deadly force and certainly deadly force was clearly authorized so what’s the difference. Even with fire, Dorner could have surrendered should that have been his intention.
Hmm, this is scary. Now James even you and I agree. No matter how I feel about the situation in general, one cannot expect to do what he did on that day and not expect deadly force. With the firepower he had, it was the safest way to deal with him. He ultimately made the choice to die.
James Mills and Administrator – Deadly force in my eyes are permissible based on the events that had occurred. I don’t have any problems with the actions they took (SWAT Teams) , as deadly force is deadly force whether by fire or by whatever means they deemed necessary to end this.
Dorner could have ended this by himself peacefully.
But I had read this manifesto, and I believed that he wasn’t going to give himself up to anyone. He was in this until he was killed.
This case (the house fire) will more then likely go to trial. As a minimum, for the money to pay for the loss of the structure. If McMahon had said that “Yes we burned it down” the county would be liable for the fire. But by saying “No we didn’t burn it down on purpose” the insurance company will pay for the loss, but will file a claim against the county for the damages.
Either way, the county will end up paying something for the actions that day.
But, Sheriff McMahon has painted himself into a corner due to his statements on the fire. If any court cases are filed (Criminal or Civil) you can bet that the radio traffic and the news reports to include the press statements will be brought up in the trials. The Sheriff will be impeached as a witness in these trials – if he sticks to the statements he made.
I agree too, oh my.
I have a question for the law enforcement officers here or anyone else with knowledge. Was there any other way that the Sheriff’s Dept could have responded that would have not jeopardized the life of the fallen deputy? Did any other higher ranking officer act in such a way that they unnecessarily put the deputy in needless danger. I’m asking for peace of mind that his wife may never feel that his death was avoidable.
Also, why was the FBI not involved as they appeared to be earlier? Excuse my questions if they are off base. Thanks.
McMahon impeached? Really? Like that’s news to anyone……LoL
That would just make 2 current cases of recent that he was involved in whereas his veracity is questioned……..
Only one of them will cost him personally tho, and it ain’t the Dorner case…….
@anon, the short term answer to your question is NO!!!!!!
HIGH ranking officers are seldom in the middle of MOST fire fights that take place in LE.
But NO ranking officers has the authority or ability to tell you to sit there and get shot at until THEY think it’s ok to returen fire. That is NOT part of anyting that is taught nor expected by the courts in this country.
The regular streets cops do not seek out their SUPERIORS permission nor the wisdom when the bullets are flying at the moment they are. MOST of the supervisors I have worked with I’d perfer they stay out of the way because they were more of a problem than part of any solution. Exceptions to that of course.
How does one respond when the SECOND you see the suspect, they open fire on you?
The answer is obvious and has NOTHING to do with supervision being present, YOU return the fire IMMEDIATLEY or you might die.
You will discuss what you might have done different LATER.
Saving your own life or surviving a violent encounter like this is generally upon YOU the individual.
But the loss of these cops has nothing to do with supervision being present or a plan that COULD have been implemented. Just NO time for that because EVERYTIME Dorner spotted a cop on his heels he open fire.
The issue of using “burners” that led to the cabin fire MIGHT very well be a supervisor issue.
If it is, whether the setting of the fire was intentional or unintentional under this case scenario it was NOT unreasonable to use such a tactic.
Burning the enemy out of a position is as old as time. If that shocks your values in life, OH WELL, welcome to the world of un-conventional war fare.
Where the problem comes in, is when you try and say we didn’t intentionally set the fire, when you hear radio traffic that suggests otherwise.
John McMahon should have said yes, we knew a fire was possible, we or I DID NOT care if a fire erupted and killed Dorner because I WAS NOT going to have ANYMORE of my depties or cops killed playing with this MADMAN.
PERIOD end of story. LET the ACLU or anyone else do whatever.
It appears as usual once something pops up whether it be public opinion or politics, SBSD tries to explain it away, CONTRARY to other evidence that they CANNOT explain away, we see the present debacle.
From the information I have and the source is very trusted the deputy who died and the other wounded was just not behind enough cover, Dorner had a little better angle on them, took the shot and hit them.
But that had nothing to do with a supervisor.
As to the FBI, it appears they have been involved in this situation for many days, what they are doing, the specifics are unknown.
The FBI will do what it wants, and others will have little to say about it.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks for answering my question. It really was just a question as I know others have followed this more closely than I have. As for burning the house down being in conflict with my ideals, not necessarily. It would depend on the circumstances, and as I said, I don’t know them all. I know it may sound funny on this blog, but I actually was just wondering what you all know. I didn’t know the fallen deputy was face to face with him and had no way of avoiding the man’s gun fire.
FBI had NO jurisdiction. Not a federal crime, no interstate travel, and I’m sure they were not ‘invited’ to do anything but liaison. Besides, most FBI agents have far less experience in these types of situations then you would think. Their HRT SWAT guys may be good but the regular agents are not very well regarded by Cops that have worked with them.
WELL the “spin” continues with LAPD. PROPAGANDA at it’s finest.
I just watched a CBS News exclusive with John MIller. Many of us know Mr.Miller is a former LAPD commander who was in charge of special crimes unit back in the day. John has been with CBS for a number of years and does a fine job of blow by blows when it’s needed on LIVE coverage.
John is pretty low key guy and sports a very professional image. But John KNOWS all to well about LAPD, bet he knows where a few skeletons are buried himself.
Today’s interview was with one of the Captains who was on Dorner’s Board of Rights panel and on the TARGET list. The Captain is white. He also had his black wife as part of the interview who is a Senior Sergeant with LAPD.
ANY chance picking that couple was in hopes of sending a MESSAGE?? How convient to help us believe there is no racism in the ranks.
Both were in full uniform, and looked sharp in front of the camera’s.
Ninety percent of the interview was about THEM, and what they as a couple have accomplished down in the inner city. The camera’s showed them meeting kids and residents shaking hands and giving hugs. A GREAT recruiting clip for LAPD.
The on camera support was good, so good John Miller said that one of the most notorious street gangs in that area offered to protect this couple against Dorners pending attacks.
Impressive commentary if your trying to show how LAPD has changed over the years. But even two of the finest cops out of the 9,000 plus employed does not paint a picture ALL is well within the ranks.
We all know LE agencies have many FINE employees from top to bottom.
Interesting how the wife said she just read a “couple” paragraphs of Dorners manifesto.
She explained her sleepless nights, getting up every 20 minutes or so looking out into her backyard only to see 2 LAPD cops with their helmets on, guarding them, awake all night those cops were. OKAY!!!
She went on to explain how she has been given the same opportunites to advance as was Dorner. OKAY!!!!
NEITHER she nor her husband said a WORD about Dorner’s termination case. I was quite surprised NOT to hear the Captain say I was on that BOR and DUE PROCESS was FAIR towards Dorner, and no misconduct on our part EVER happened.
Of course if there is an ongoing investigation on Dorner’s termination, I guess it would not be wise for the Captain to say anything he could not back up later.
NO tuff quesitons asked, NO answers to what everyone is asking offered up at anytime during the interview.
I just wonder why John MIller didn’t bother to seek interviews with the dozen or so attorneys in the area who represent LAPD cops in lawsuits against the department on issues of retaliation and whistle blowing. Labor issues across the board.
There are more than a few 20 plus year attorneys in the LA area. Would they not have a PROFESSIONAL opionon on this, be able to give factual infromaton out to the public, or would they be too biased, where the husband and wife are MORE objective?
Getting together with those attorneys, I am sure between all of them they could tell the public that such issues like Dorner’s have DECREASED in the last decade or so. That Dorner was an abberation and nothing more.
OR, they could have shown the active cases they are handling against the City on claims similiar to Dorners.
Better yet if they have EVER had cases with any of those Captains on Dorners Board of Rights named as a defendant.
Wouldn’t it be a bitch if Captain Quan before he became an attorney was named in one or more law suits?
I bet there is at least ONE lawyer in the area that has a list of SUPERVISORS who’s name come up more than a couple times in issues such as Dorners.
The selective “thin blue line” of defense continues, and will until the tuff questions are asked.
You want to put this case to rest as to the cause of this terrible tradegy, get the tuffest attorney you know, let him look at Dorner’s termination case.
Who is brave enough in LAPD to do that?
The interview today was disingenious and insulting to ALL involved offering up these two employees attempting to PROJECT an image all is well in LAPD.
LAPD didn’t want anyone to think they did anything wrong, because these TWO well dressed employees black and white couple, and a few residents of the inner city said so.
NICE try LAPD, but the only cigars to be given out will be to the clueless ones.
This CBS exclusive was a poor attempt to mis-direct the public, and it suggests there really is more to the story of why Dorner did what he did.
LAPD first has to explain Dorner was NOT retaliated against, then the second phase of this debacle is proving LAPD don’t retaliate against their employees for whistle blowing.
Maybe they can do interviews with some COMMAND staff who in their younger days reported corruption and misconduct and it did NOT effect them in anyway in moving up through the ranks.
Show us LAPD, those who didn’t turn a BLIND EYE and were rewarded for their HONEST efforts.
YES I know this does not excuse Dorner’s murders, NEVER said it did, but the cause is of equal importance.
You cops who are brave need to step up and quit down playing this non-sense as no big deal.
Most Cops do not think the FBI agents are Law Enforcement.
Think? Because they aren’t……… They don’t even have powers of arrest