Most of us are aware of the tragic incident that involved Katie Tangle who was embroiled in ugly domestic dispute with her boyfriend Stephen Garcia that led to the murder/suicide that involved her young son Wyatt Garcia a few weeks ago.
We are also aware of the issues involving Judge Robert Lemkau and his calling Ms.Tangle a liar in open court and refusing to issue a restraining order against Stephen Garcia. Judge Lemkau is catching hell from every direction as a result of his comments and inaction.
If you read the papers, Steven and Wyatt’s bodies were discovered up in Twin Peaks, California shortly after Stephen Garcia had threatened to kill his son. Their bodies were found by deputies from the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department. Not much else was mentioned except homicide investigators were investigating.
I will be honest with our readers. I sat on this issue for a couple weeks. When I first heard about it, I wondered why the Sheriff’s Department never mentioned anything about what really happened.
Well after talking to a couple people about the incident, I know why the Sheriff’s Department made it sound like they got a call about the incident, and found the bodies the next day. That is not what happened.
I will give the basic story and try to not Monday-night quarterback too much because I have been in these situations myself. It’s a tough situation for those directly involved.
A Sheriff’s Deputy spotted Steven Garcia’s car on the night Katie reported the incident, and a pursuit took place. The deputies knew of Steven’s threats to kill his son and himself.
A Sheriff’s helicopter quickly joined the pursuit. It started near Hesperia Lakes, located on the far southeast side of Hesperia, California, and was headed up the backside of the mountain towards Twin Peaks.
The normal protocol after a pursuit starts is to alert the shift supervisor of the situation and the reason for the pursuit, traffic conditions, speeds, etc. The supervisor is to determine, based on the information, to allow the pursuit to continue or to terminate the pursuit.
This is where the first big problem started. The supervisor did not answer his radio. According to the source the sergeant did not answer his radio for 30 minutes or so.
The helicopter observer told the ground units if they were going to try a PIT manuever (Pursuit Intervention Technique) they needed to do it soon or Garcia would be onto the winding roads and a PIT would be too dangerous.
The deputy who was following Garcia wanted to get the supervisor’s permission to do a PIT, but there was no answer on the radio. NOT GOOD!! It must be noted that at this time any supervisor monitoring this radio traffic has the authority to step in and make decisions if need be, no matter where the supervisor works. A senior deputy on the shift could step in a make a decision too. Been there done that. Unless policy has changed I am not aware deputies need permission to PIT.
This pursuit continues up into the Twin Peaks area where Garcia pulls into a steep driveway and tries to get away. There was still a lot of snow on the mountain so Garcia gets stuck going up the driveway. The deputies had him boxed in and he couldn’t get away.
Now the sergeant who has been absent for the last 30 minutes comes across the radio and tells the deputies to hold their position as they have a hostage situation. I am not sure how the sergeant can determine that if he is not there to see the suspect or his car.
At some point in time while the deputies are holding their position is when Garcia kills his son and then himself.
I won’t say why the deputies on scene did or did not approach the suspect, I was not there. I can tell you that deputies are paid to make decisions in life-threatening situations without the permission of a supervisor. It is not like they have time to sit around and discuss all their options.
But if the deputy was not making a decision because he was afraid of getting into trouble, that is a serious problem itself. If this sergeant is a micro-manager and it has instilled fear in the troops from making decisions on their own, that is another problem.
The incident no doubt affected one or more of the deputies on scene as the counseling team was sent to the scene.
Why none of this was mentioned in the papers is beyond me. We have all read hundreds of accounts of pursuits and officer-involved shootings.
The other version of the story I got was, the deputies just followed Garcia at a distance and Garcia crashed his car and when they found them, both Garcia and Wyatt were dead.
But like I mentioned at inlandpolitics.com about the ARMC scandal, when people die, “shit happens.” Just ask Judge Lemkau.
Another tragic coverup? You decide.
I would say the basic facts of what happened should have been made by Sheriff Hoops himself. For the Sheriff’s Department to make it sound like they got a call about the situation and found Garcia and Wyatt later deceased, when a pursuit or following the suspects took place, DOES not look transparent at all.
BUT I HAVE never seen anyone from the Sheriff’s Department EVER admit they made a mistake when dealing with the public.
He did not stop on a driveway. He stopped in the middle of the road when his car became mired in snow. He tried to lead the deputies there to either lose them, or get them farther in, and engage them. This was a road that he was familiar with, and he knew it would would not be plowed, and is a dirt road.
Within a very short time after the termination of the pursuit, a bullet hole was noted in the window. That was likely the time that the shootings occurred.
I believe if a PIT was done, all it would have done is reduced the hazard to the public a tiny bit, but the outcome would have been the same… and people would have blamed the deputies for “forcing his hand”.
And PIT’s are rarely – if ever – done in hostage situations. No PIT is 100% safe for the parties involved.
The agencies that were ALSO there at the termination, are the Hesperia PD, and CHP. It wasn’t a solely SBSO operation.
Hesperia PD is SBSO.
There was no cover up. Several of my good friends were there and i have heard it straight from them. There was a communication problem as the Twin Peaks area is on a different radio channel and there was a technical problem with the frequencies and the radio patch that was out of the control of the dispatcher, the Sgt. and the Deputies. The problem has since been addressed. This was a tragic event not only for the family, but also for all of the personnel involved. All of our personnel that were either there or have friends that were there took this very hard and it is in extremely poor taste to state your opinion of facts that you obviously know nothing about. If you are trying to expose problems in the Sheriff’s Dept., there are other things to address.
Well everyone thank you for responding to the original post.
I appreciate the clarification and input.
Wrong, yes it was a tragic incident for all involved I thought I was clear on that. Your not talking to someone who does not know about such tradegy.
Wrong it sounds like your not a Deputy and if you were you would know when people die it is the ultimate issue of discussion. NOTHING over shadows the death of another human being. PERIOD!!!
But can anyone explain why EVEN a basic statement as to what happened was not put in the papers? I was hoping most would see that as my point, nothing more.
I will not debate tactics on what could have should have been done. I thought I was clear on that, I apologize if I was not.
Wrong, poor taste in mentioning this when the Sheriff’s Department never said anything about this in the paper, sorry sir I think not.
I know the names of those involved I did not mention them out of respect. Rethink your poor taste comment.
The radio problem in that area and dead space or whatever else might have been the issue is not or should not have been a surprise and ADDRESSED a long time ago.
Wrong, so not mentioning this incident in the paper in not a cover up, what would you call this an oversight?
Not to mention any of this whether it is your version or mine DOES not look good.
And it does not matter if the Sergeant cannot communicate with his troops, the Deputy or Deputies can still make decisions on their own. IF not, time to go back to the jail.
Wrong by your own statements you were not there, my sources WERE not Deputies.
And whatever that decision was, so be it.
Bottom line, this incident NO MATTER how it went down and who did or did not do whatever is not the point.
It was kept from the public, PERIOD!!!!
Wrong, I don’t believe the point of that article was to second guess the deputies on the scene. I would be with or without a restraining order, without or without a PIT maneuver, with or without a working radio system, the end result would have been the same: a dead baby. Unfortunately, that is the reality when one is dealing with a homocidal sociopath.
One of the things I’m in trouble for is making a DCS referral on a homocidal drug addicted sociopath. Fortunately, you guys got him before he hurt his daughter and he went to prison. If you had listened to the director of my department there would have been another dead child. My point being I’m sensitive to micromanagement, which is one of the issues raised here.
But the real issue is that this is a case that has caught the attention of the legal community nationwide and activists at the state level at least. This is an election year and Sheriff Hoops has never had to run for election before. There does seem to be a cover up of tje facts. We are not saying the deputied on the scene did anything wrong but rather that emotions are running high with the public and this is a case where lots of armchair quarterbacks will find fault with the deputies’ actions even if there is none to be found. It seems this is a case of spin to protect Hoops from criticism in an election year. But if there was no wrongdoing by tje deputies there is no reason not to let the public know the whole story. And the public has the right to know tje whole story even in an election year and even if there is wrongdoing. Keeping the facts away from the public gives the appearance of guilt.
Wrong, I forgot to mention since this issue was so tragic, do you know if Sheriff Hoops went over to Ms. Tangle’s house and told her what he believed happened to her 9 month old son?
Any contact with Ms. Tangle from anyone in the County?
She is without question the victim in this case.
Sad to think that Judge Lemkau did what he did, the Sheriff’s Department did what they did and this woman is still wondering what and the hell happened?
Did anyone from the Counseling Team, Coroners Office, go give Ms. Tangle a hug in her time of need?
It appears this woman played by the rules, asked for help and got short changed in more than one way.
The Sheriff’s Dept does not write in the paper. They issue a press release and it is up to the paper to get the correct story. It’s part of that whole freedom of the press thingy in that constition document thingy.
Tell your brass to send me a copy of the press release in pdf format so I can’t be accused of altering it and I will post it in its entirety. Then everyone can make up their own mind as to whether the Sheriff’s Department was being forthright or hiding something. If everything is on the up and up then you shouldn’t be afraid to send it for publication.
Deputy I don’t think you know what your talking about.
Up to the press to figure out if there was a pursuit?
Hope your not part of the Executive Staff that will explain their current problems.
Jim Amarmino of the OC Sheriff Department seems to understand what the print, TV and radio reporters need and is able to present it in a clear and concise fashion.
I have never heard of Jim being acused of being involved in a cover up either.
Steve Brow,
Please tell me that sarcasim is your fluent laungage.
Deputy, I live not to far from were the incident ended; and our local media reported the SBSO statement without wavering. it was the local rumor-ville that helped get the correct story.
Wrong, you mentioned that there are other problems within SBSD to address; like what?
Just Saying
Let me address the issues with the radio if that was in fact a problem.
When the County went to the 800mhz radio system as time went by it was discovered there was more than a few dead spots all over the County.
Dead spots being where you cannot transmit in that area. Some of those spots were populated areas.
Best example I remember was the Butterfield Ranch Carbon Canyon area of Chino Hills. If you got down there and things went bad unless you had another unit with you, YOU were on your own.
I am not a communication expert, but if putting up another repeater or repositioning one is what it would take to correct this problem, then it should have been done years ago.
Second issue, different frequencies in certain areas.
Unless the Deputy has been trained or has taken the time to ask someone who knows the bounderies on where to switch frequencies and the radio has been programmed where you touch a certain button to go to that frequency THERE might be a problem.
Example when you are going up or down the hill on Interstate 15 from about Oak Hills at the top of the pass to around the 15/215 split it is best to be on the mountain frequency which allows you to talk to the dispatcher handling the mountain stations.
I really don’t care who I am talking to as long as it is someone who can get me help, RIGHT NOW!!
Not much else that I am aware of works in that area. If you travel around as many do in the Sheriff’s Department you should be changing radio frequencies from time to time so you can talk to someone if something happens.
Trust me things happen when you least expect it.
Another example if you are going from Barstow to Needles there is a place on I 40 where you need to change channels for someone to hear you. I don’t remember where that was exactly.
The patch. This is where the dispatcher can flip a switch and it allows everyone to talk and hear everyone no matter what frequency there on. A great tool and is invaluable.
I programmed my radio to scan all the surrounding stations where I work so I could listen just in case something serious was going on.
When I traveled or left the city I either asked the dispatcher what a frequency for a given area was or researched it and made a list of the channels.
The radio and the dispatcher is your life line, and the dispatchers do a hell of a job trying to keep you alive. God bless them. Another group of folks who receive little recognition.
So I would HOPE that the Deputies working Hesperia who work next to that mountain range have ALL of the radios programmed that the moment they hit a certain area they automatically push that button and can talk to those folks on the mountain.
I feel one of the greatest reason you want to be able to get onto a primary frequency where ever your at is that those frequencies are tape recorded and are a running record of events. VERY important if someone should say you didn’t do this or that.
If a Deputy hasn’t taken the time to figure any of that out, then he or she is placing themselves in harms way.
It is very difficult to be driving at 100 mph and playing with radio buttons at the same time.
YOU MUST have a plan at all times. I believe it is the responsibility of Supervisors to discuss issues like this from time to time and get everyone thinking.
I have met a few Deputies who could drive at 100 mph, talk on the radio, drink coffee and eat a donut at the same time. IT does take talent.
No wonder Mark Kirk never gets the message to come to County Government Center in SB, the Chino Hills Shoppes Government Center West must be in the middle of a 800mhz dead zone.
You guys are still wrong. From what I understood was that there was a technical problem with patching desert, mountain and valley channels together. Not dead spots, and not the deputy knowing what channel to go to, etc. It was a problem they had not encountered before as they had never tried to patch the three areas together.
Ok wrong were wrong. Thanks for the information.
“Patching” only connects the audio from one radio talkgroup, or radio system to another.
It does not magically allow you to talk anywhere no matter what system you are on.
If you were on the “1″ system in the desert and you start winding your way into the mountains, and the dispatcher patched your channel to the 8-system, you would still be receiving and transmitting on the 1-system, and you would eventually be scratchy, or in dead zones.
Education is the KEY. The radio, like your gun, pepper spray and baton, is a TOOL. You have to know how to use it, and as ACU says, HAVE A PLAN. As you head over to the mountains, going to 8-MTN-1 or 8-CHASE-1 would have been all that is necessary.
As an important note. The Mountain system will work throughout most of the valley, nearly to Barstow, the Cajon pass, Hesperia/Victorville area and up most of the way up 395 to just before the intersection of the 395/58… and then it picks up again north of the 58 all the way to Red Mountain. It also works very well in Yucca Valley and 29 Palms – so when in doubt, use that.
And had the dispatcher gone to 8-chase it wouldf have worked fine but since they chose 8-mtn-1 and that is patched with 7-evc-2 it did not work right and locked out the desert dispatcher. The valley dispatcher didn’t realize she took over until desert supervisor called on the phone to say they couldn’t transmit. Education is key. Have one before you comment.
Thanks Bobbie and anon, very good information.
Thanks for explaining the patch system.
I wonder if any of the Deputies knew this?
Let me asked either of you if you know. Do we still have some of the same problems with dead spots as we did say 10 years ago?
And if so, is it because we need a repeater added to a given area or one repositioned. Thank you.
The San Bernardino County 800 Radio Network is an extensive array of sites that consist of repeaters, controller electronics and transport equipment (microwave radio). Radio sites generally have several repeaters that are shared by county 800 radio users. The mountain system is currently served by 7 different sites (collectively call the 8 system).
You mentioned the I-15 and 1-40 corridors, there are several sites along both, and each site has 3 channels 1 for Law, 1 for Fire and 1 for General Government. The same information holds true for the 395 route heading for Trona area and also along the Colorado River.
You mentioned the butterfield ranch and carbon canyon areas – These areas have been improved over the last few years. You can check with 800 radio but I think they added a new and expanded site at carbon canyon late last year or early this year. Butterfield has had a site for the last few years.
Patching talk groups across systems will always be a problem until people understand how it works – If you are out of range of a system that is patched you are still not going to be able to talk. You have to change channels to the new system you are moving into.
Another feature of the radio that was mentioned (scan). Yes, scan can be set up in every radio; scan also requires that you be in range of the system(s) your scanning.
The truth is every radio user (especially public safety employees) should know the general geographic areas served by the radio network and which system serves that area. Like Bobby mentioned, if all else fails try the 8 system.
As far as dead spots go; they happen and are a fact of life. You can throw tons of dollars in radio sites and still have dead spots. You can have satellite radio and still have dead spots. A dead spot can often be countered by moving your radio a few feet in one direction or another or by removing your radio from your belt and holding it up and away from your body.
Most departments do not seem to take radio operations serious when it comes to training. Most people will learn how to use private call (so they chat with their buddy) or use the telephone. Ask most people when or where or how to change systems and the water becomes very muddy.
I am certainly not an authority on the radio system(s) but you can check these details with the 800 radio group.
As per usual, I’ve missed something. Lemkau allowed Stephen Garcia access to Wyatt Garcia, yes? Why were the cops following him?
You have: “A Sheriff’s Deputy spotted Steven Garcia’s car on the night Katie reported the incident, and a pursuit took place. The deputies knew of Steven’s threats to kill his son and himself.” Why did a pursuit take place? Did Garcia think the cops were going to take his kid away? If so, is that why he shot his kid?
It seems kind of an important thing to know why the cops pursued Garcia at all. Did I miss something? Was there a death threat issued that night? I read a lot about this case, but I may have missed something.
Yes a death threat had been issued by Garcia sometime before the pursuit took place on the night in question.
The incident in court with Lemkau, and the pursuit were several days apart.